"Best" (or Least Terrible) National Brands

Mattress Talk Industry Trends, Resources, & theUnderGround (TMU)
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Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Been reading long enough to know not to expect personalized advice (nor am I expecting it).

Long-story short, I have a spine condition, and for years had been buying the national brands, Sealy, Serta, etc. Always either hybrid or full innerspring, and always medium-firm or firm. My experience was one of great satisfaction for the first year or two, followed by back problems after.

After reading the forums and mattress guides, and considering the pattern of good support at first, pain later, I decided the issue was sub-par materials and durability and eventually bought an all-Latex mattress from one of the approved sellers here.

I won’t name which one, as they seem to be a good business for others, while I have nothing nice to say about their products. It’s been terrible. Never had a comfortable honeymoon period with it, and my back pain is getting progressively worse, despite the supposed superior supportive capabilities of latex (and, yes, I tried different levels of firmness).

Feeling discouraged right now, as I’ve got nothing to show for all of my due-diligence and research.

I’m digressing. My issue now is that the part of Maryland I live in (north of Baltimore) is a bit of a desert, when it comes to independent mattress sellers. What ones I can find still sell nothing but national brands, anyway. And, with my back condition, I’m not able to travel easily to find ones farther away to test out.

After the failure of this latest (non-refundable) purchase, I refuse to buy anything I can’t test first again.

To get to the actual point: I desperately need a new mattress, and I’m pretty sure I’m all but stuck with settling right now for a national brand. At least, if I want to be able to test in-store.

Does anyone have an opinion on which of the widely sold brands are generally regarded as more reliable? Or, that they have a personal preference for? I’d seriously be happy with just a solid 5 years of decent support at this point. I’m not picky.

Sealy and Serta are on my s*list, and I’ve been eyeing Stearns & Foster. But, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they’re all owned by the same company, ultimately.

Looking for some opinions, as that’s all I can really go on right now.

Thanks!
Joe N.

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Hi Jnotari,
Welcome to TMU. I will be very brief and get back later. I disagree with your assessment of having to settle for a national brand. I don’t believe that is true, even in the situation you describe.

Testing a mattress for 10 min, 20 min, is helpful, but it still is no indication of long term comfort and durability. The reason it is difficult to evaluate many of the national brands is because they don’t really provide the information necessary about the materials to predict long term durability, short term comfort or the ability to compare mattresses within their own lines, sister brands or other competitors.
HMMM! I wonder why?

I have mentioned this many times. I did the national brand search and trial. Narrowed down to a few based on my personal preferences, pressure relief and perceived posture and spinal alignment. Then I compared my final 3 or 4 choices which varied from 3k to $14k, give or take. I looked at each, layer by layer, side by side on the computer screen, density, weight, materials, construction, coil gauge etc. All this was prior to becoming a member of TMU, and perhaps might have evaluated with even more intensity, then I did prior to being a member.

Anyway, the mattress I chose was a BinB, never tested it, slept on it, heard of it, except for when I searched the internet (after much frustration, similar to yours) for the “firmest mattress on the market.” The Brooklyn Bedding Plank Luxe kept showing up, time after time. Saatva was in there too, big fig, winkbed and the titan. I studied as many independent reviews, what I consider off site (non affiliate, not on the manufacturers or sellers web-site. I watched every affiliate website review of the mattress, for the purpose of finding out what the mattress was constructed with. They seem to get more information than the websites of the respective mattresses provide. I took their advice with a grain of salt, but utilized their reporting of the materials and construction.

Now it may be easy for a manufacturer to say their mattress is the “firmest.” If they provide actual specs, you at least have a chance of testing their claim on paper. Thicker gauge coils, HD Foam, 1.8lbs or more, higher ILD of foams vs. lower ILDs, natural fibers the firm up when compressed, and so on. That is exactly what I did.

I reviewed any seller’s 3 R’s, return, refund and restocking fee policies. What was my exposure, what is the trial period, what happens if I dont like the mattress, and what is the complete process of handling the 3 R’s?

I will say since joining TMU, all of the Trusted Members spell those issues out with clarity and layman’s understanding. Some policies are better than others, certainly, but they are transparent about them. Most ship nationwide and offer trial periods. Some have body profile mattress testing. Some more detailed than others, but most seem to nail it on the first try, considerably more often than folks just wondering into the box or department store and being “sold” by a salesperson. I am not suggesting there are not good salespeople out there (so lets not go there), good experienced ones are out there, I crossed paths with several. That is why it is important to do some research prior to walking into any mattress store. You need to know if someone is being sincere and accurate or are they just “selling” it.

I would start with identifying your body profile, age, weight, and bmi. Personal preferences, past history and what you loved about your previous mattress. Even if the mattress only lasted 3 years. You objective would then be to match that model of mattress with one that can be built or bought with similar characteristics, but with a level of quality that will provide for long term usage. When the specific model of past mattress is available, provide it. Size of mattress. I cant tell you how many times people post here and other sites, “looking for comfortable mattress for users with different preferences.” Well, great, some companies only make dual comfort in a king sized mattress, some in both queen and king. How can anyone point a prospective mattress purchaser, if they don’t know what size mattress they are looking for?

I have looked at many of our Trusted Members websites, spoke with a lot of them via posting, text or email. They all were happy to respond and offer their perspective on things, even when we had differences of thought on a subject. But that is how you learn as they see folks hundreds of times per year, where the prospective mattress purchaser, may only see them once over a period of many years. I have patients who do this to me all the time. I have to remind them, I see “you” thousands of time a year, you see me once a year. I can remember every detail of your visit. LOL :thinking:

I guarantee you that you dont have to settle. Just put your info out there and one of our trusted members can point you in the right direction!

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but just my way of providing helpful tips on entertaining the process.

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Hey batmannorm,

Appreciate the response. I’ve read enough posts on TMU to expect this, so no worries there.

To be clear, I was not sniping at this trusted member that I left unnamed. They were great and it was a very positive buying experience. I knew I was taking a big swing when I bought the latex mattress, and I knew it was non-refundable. It just has ended up being a big miss, and I made the mistake of posting while frustrated.

You’ve made some excellent points. I’ll start figuring out how best to describe what I’m looking for, and I guess that’s what the expert forums are for?

I think we can strike latex from the list of future buying options, but I’ve historically been happy with both pure innerspring and hybrid innerspring/memory foam.

Looking forward to some good conversations here on the forums.

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Jnotari,
Actually, I was not even thinking about the trusted member you were referring to. Many have their own policies for their own reasons. As long as they are up front with them, it is perfectly fine. Refund, no refund, one exchange, no exchange, that is absolutely ok, as long as the client knows that going in.

I like to take the more average person approach to things. It is fine to get all technical. As a matter of fact, it works in majority of the cases as a predictor of outcomes. The problem arises when it doesnt. I am constantly asked by my patients’, what is the best progressive eyeglass lens on the market. While there sort of is a technical answer to the question. My answer is generally the same. “The one that works best for you.” We can throw all the technical stuff we want out there, but if someone is not comfortable, it just isnt going to work. Fortunately, just as in my practice, there is not just one premium product out there. In the mattress industry, there is no one single premium product out there either. Whether it be a $400k Hastens Mattress system or a $4000 trusted members system. It has to be comfortable, every night or it just is not good to you.

My response was more of, tell me, us, more about yourself, what you like, what your preferences are, the way you sleep and hopefully, we can help you narrow the field down to a few solid choices that will work, that you may not have been aware of even knew existed.

For example the Shifman Juno shifman Juno has a very durable support layer, nice comfort layer and cover, priced similar to the higher end S brands, but much better quality.

Then there is something like the DLX mattres DLX Classic they have a no hard feelings trial. Try it, if you dont like it, exchange it, or they will give you your money back.
There is something to be said about a company that is so confident they will make you comfort, they are willing to give you your money back, if it doesnt work. That is not to say, that a company that doesnt offer that policy does not exude the same confidence, everyone has difference business practices, that’s all. But I can see the pause when dealing with a no refund (when they have nothing else that will do) policy. Particularly when spend 3, 5, or 10k or more. It is a risk.

One that I did not want to take either. I just decided, that the national brands as you describe, was no longer for me. I was someone who had a serta perfect sleeper ultra firm flippable from 1986 -2011 and a Sealy Posturepedic Ultra Firm Pillowtop from 2011 -2022.
As a kid until college, I slept on a privately made mattress, not because my family had money, quite the opposite, we did not, so my father had “a guy” in Brooklyn make a horsehair, wool, cotton and innerspring mattress with a traditional old fashion box spring, for basically me, my bother and sister, back in the early 1960’s and that sucker lasted until I graduated college in 1982. Probably would still be going, if I didnt trash it, as I had no clue at the time.

Yes, tempur/sealy does own sealy, s&f, and tempurpedic. I think when these companies start to swallow each other, they start to lose their identity and it becomes more of a marketing proposition, rather than a high quality product proposition. I know companies can do both, but it makes it a lot harder at that level of mass production, among other issues.

Again, not too helpful, but just more perspective.
Norm

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Ah, I see.

Well, some quick background/stats:

Age = 35
Height = 6 ft
Weight = 230

I think that makes BMI around 31.

I’m also in the process of losing quite a bit of weight, and hoping to be closer to 200 within the next year. Won’t be getting any heavier, at any rate.

I prefer to be a side-sleeper, but, whenever my lower back issues become aggravated, I become a back-sleeper by necessity. Ideally, I’d like something that works for both, then.

Historically, I feel I’ve been most comfortable on hybrids, I think. Only ever had memory foam comfort layers on them, but have no qualms with Latex. I’ve had latex toppers that I really liked, it’s just the all-latex mattress that is giving me problems. Latex or good-quality memory foam are probably equal to me for comfort layers.

I think I gravitate to coils for the core more because I prefer the feeling on laying on top of the mattress, rather than “in” it. My back feels better when the sensation is like it’s being braced or resisted by something strong and solid, rather than the more weightless feeling of the foam’s sink-in effect, if that makes sense.

What’s important to me is that I get some degree of pressure relief, without compromising that “bracing” feel.

I tend to prefer medium-firm to firm comfort layers. In my experience, firmer is generally better. Too firm, however, like an extra firm, actually aggravates the source of the pain.

Tried medium, firm, and extra firm comfort layers on top of the latex core mattress and could never find that Goldilocks zone.

For more specific examples, I had a Sealy Posturepedic that felt good for the first year and a half, before the problems arose. I’ve also slept on more than one Beauty Rest hybrid while traveling, and they all felt great. If I could find something like those, but with more longevity, then I think we’d be in the right ballpark.

Hopefully, this is a good starting point to work off of.

Joe

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Hi Joe,

How are your pillows working for you? And do you sleep with a body pillow?
Pillows can be a real issue, especially for side sleepers, in terms of alignment, and thus, with pain.

Katie

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Hey Joe,
That is an excellent start. Although I am close to 30 years older, we are both in the same size and weight bracket. I was 250 a year ago, now 220 at 6’.

Memory foams comes in different formats. I actually don’t like the term memory foam. It sort of implies that the foam depresses and reverts back to its original shape. Not all foam in the “memory” foam category provides that very obvious depression and recovery, like viscoelastic polyurethane foam. Polyurethane, when the additives are infused using blowing agents to create the viscoelastic foam, which becomes heat sensitive, can be made to varying density and weight, creating varying response effects makes it significantly different on how it feels vs latex foam, but can sometimes can mimic latex at first glance.
I mention this as in your decryption of being comfortable on hybrids, that you preferred memory foam comfort layers. In my mind it seems to conflict a bit with your gravitation to coil explanation. Laying on top of the mattress rather than in it. I happen to like the laying on top feel too. Usually, when someone speaks about memory foam, it is the sinking, hugging, sleeping “in” the mattress feel that the person likes. Which is why I am making the distinction of the “memory” foam to begin the discussion.

My BB Plank Luxe uses a 2" layer of HD 1.8lb 36ILD foam. Obviously, it compresses, but you sleep on top of the mattress not in it, and it does not soften with heat like visco foam. That HD layer is technically memory foam, but not in the sense most people think of when the term memory foam is used. When most people or manufacturers mention memory foam, the first thing that comes to most folks’ mind is Tempur-pedic or viscoelastic polyurethane foam. I know this paragraph doesn’t say much, but I feel it is important to recognize the distinction in the foam.

Now the Sealy you slept on, unless it was their “natural” line, includes viscoelastic memory foam in all of their mattresses (probably using Tempur Technology). Every Beautyrest mattress uses viscoelastic memory foam too. I mention this because it is not so much the coils that are allowing you to sleep on the top of the mattress, it is the firmness of comfort layer being supported by the coils. The coils job is to offer great support and allow for every spring to flex independently, resulting in a mattress that conforms to your body’s contours while limiting the side-to-side movement and interruption of your partners sleep as you move around.

Latex on the other hand, does come in varying firmness’s, but feels different, you get more of a floating feel rather than a sinking, hugging feel. Which is confusing even more since you have not found a comfortable latex comfort layer in any firmness. Unless I didn’t read something correctly.

Having said all this, a couple of examples of mattresses that you might find comfortable, go back to my original examples the Juno and the DLX classic. The Naturepedic EOS classic is a nice hybrid where you can swap out layers. Shovlin in NJ makes some very nice innerspring mattresses in their classic collection. Another collection that is quite nice is Millbrook. [Millbrook Hampshire 1] (https://yawnder.com/product/hampshire-i) yawnder offers a 100-night trial, free shipping and returns. I dont even think there is any contest between the Millbrook and any of the “national brands” you mention.

I understand it is difficult to find a place to go and test. But that is what trials are for. I would take a peek at some of these and see if any check all your boxes, on paper at least. I actually bought my mattress from yawnder, and if it is any consolation, they were the easiest to work with. They may not be a Trusted Member of TMU. But I trust them as they were great with me and a few of my friends who have purchased from them. Unfortunately, their store is located in San Diego, so any test would be a trial in your home.

I would think about the characteristics of your preferences once again. I want you be sure about that memory foam vs latex comparison. I agree at our weight and size, with similar lower back issues and traditionally side sleepers, a hybrid or innerspring will offer the type of support your body will crave.

If you have any questions about that Millbrook, I have become friendly with the owner of Yawnder, mostly due to me being a PIA and pounding him with questions for a year, and I keep finding errors on his web site that I text him to correct. :crazy_face: He is pretty cool about it though and appreciates me looking out for him. Sometimes fresh eyes see things that tired ones do not.

Hopefully, you have some food for thought.

Norm

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Hey Katie,

I’ve experimented with body pillows for side-sleeping, but couldn’t adjust. Was easier to just switch to my back, though I occasionally roll onto my side for short stretches of time.

The source of the pain is structural, so what aggravates it can change over time. I do sleep with pillows under my knees though. That’s been a necessity.

Joe

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Thanks, Norm. Yeah, I’m not surprised to find out I’m contradicting myself. Trying to remember these past experiences. My memory of the Posturepedic was that it felt like I was “on” it, since I’d bought their Firm comfort layer.

I also don’t understand why I can’t find any latex comfort layers that work for me. Maybe the issue isn’t sink in after all, but the floating, weightless feel, specifically. Maybe that’s what’s aggravating my back?

Would the non-viscoelastic foam hybrids you mentioned have that same floating sensation, or would it be closer to just a solid “on” feel?

Thanks

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Hey Joe,
I must say, my last mattress from 2011-2022 was a sealy posturepedic ultra firm pillowtop. Despite the pillowtop, I did not sink either! That was prior to the temper/sealy merger, I don’t remember there was any tempur memory foam in the mattress at that time. It was comfortable for years until it started to sag in year 10.

I think something like the DLX Classic Medium Firmness @DLX that uses that 1.8 HD foam would probably offer a firm feeling surface, perhaps we can get them to chime in since they work with that mattress for many folks of different body profiles all day long, and I am basing it on the specs and individual reviews. Some mattresses, like the Aireloom’s, Millbrook’s, and even Shifman’s initially will have that same type of feel when trying similar versions of each respective mattress. That is why it is so darn hard to judge them, as you lay on them and they have that same kind of feeling. I am referring to their firmer versions. I do not like plush, so I did not really try many, unless I just happened to plop down on one without looking at the specs. I recently went into a local furniture store, and they had a bed with a Nectar on it. I just could not resist. My back started to hammock the second I landed on that POS. Felt like I was being swallowed into it like a taco.

Perhaps it is the floating feeling of latex that you don’t like. Which may take the naturepedic out of contention, but then again, they do make a latex-free using 3" microcoils. I don’t know much about that one, but perhaps @TheCleanBedroom could comment on that as they sell naturepedic mattresses.

I am of the belief that a mattress with a strong support layer and quality comfort layer/s should not really aggravate the back if it is being kept in proper alignment, independent of all other physical ailments. It also depends on what you are coming off, too. If you are coming from a very plush, viscoelastic hugging mattress, and now you lay on something like my plank luxe, you will notice the difference immediately. It may actually cause some pain initially as your body is not used to it.
That is why many of these manufacturers want you to sleep on their mattresses for at least 30 days. Not so much for the mattress to break in, but for you to adjust to it.
I am someone who likes mattresses on the firmer side, so in that regard, my bias starts to kick in and lean that way. Particularly when someone is my size and has similar preferences.

A mattress like the Millbrook feels like you are sleeping on top with just a small amount of body impression as the tufting is not as pronounced in the Hampshire 1 in contrast to their Windsor line. The reality is there are quite a few lines out there that have similar feels. Royalpedic, Custom Comfort to name a couple. I prefer the edge-to-edge coil design vs the Aireloom type of perimeter foam encased coils. It becomes a matter of preference. But quality of construction is always the main ingredient.

I believe those non visco’s I mentioned would seem more solid “on top” of the mattress feels, to answer that question. With more longevity than a visco foam hybrid. If you look at reviews out there by folks who have owned that style visco hybrid, they seem to all love them initially, until they start to sag. That is what scared me out of BR and S&F after looking at them. When you weigh 150 you may get away with it, when you weigh 220, 250, or more, every layer in the mattress better be the right specs and quality.

You just need to take a leap and test one out for a month. You just need to use your best educated guesstimate and work with a seller who offers the easiest and best return, refund and restocking fee policy. No hard feelings to those whose policy does not fit into your preference factor, but your geographically circumstances, and availability of product may cause you to seek someone that can accommodate you in that way.

Good luck,

Norm
Norm

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Thanks, Norm.

It’s funny you mention DLX again. As it happens, I’m talking to them via email right now, about both the Classic and Premiere mattresses.

Between them and the BB you mentioned, I think I have some options.

One thing I am confident of is that the core needs to be springs. The rest is just going to have to be trial and error.

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Hi again, Joe,

I wanted to again respond, as @Maverick mentioned the Naturepedic option.

The layers on a Naturepedic hybrid can be customized as to firmness. There are 5 different firmness levels, and Norm is correct in saying that there is a microcoil option if you do not want latex. Also, as you mentioned your needs can change over time - they do have a swap layer program for the first 90 days.

If you find that your needs are different in a few years, sometimes swapping out a layer is all that is needed, and to replace a layer in later years would run much less price-wise than replacing a whole mattress.

Hope this is helpful, and I hope you find a mattress that fits your sleep needs!
Katie

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Of course DLX knows their mattresses better than anyone. I like the construction of the Classic, I am not positive of what their 2.4lb foam layer is on the premier, I am assuming it is a HD or HR foam, open cell (I never asked them) vs a visco foam. It is available it 3 different firmness levels. Like I mentioned, I am a firm all the way type, as a topper is always an option. The classic is flippable and the premier is not, if that matters to you.Of course the premier allows you to interchange firmness layers, which can come in handy if your preferences change over the years.

You are one step closer!