Hybrid Config - 8” coils, 3” Firm and 3” Medium Latex?

Mattress Talk General Mattresses Questions
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My wife and I are going to DIY a new king sized bed. We are mostly side/back sleepers who weigh 155-175 lbs. We love our daughters all Latex Bed (Firm under Medium) but want some spring. We tested a few hybrid beds locally and definitely like something on the firmer side. The bed we liked most was 8” pocket coils with 3” firm and 3” Medium latex layers. Unclear if it was Talalay or Dunlop.

We are considering this config:
8” combo Zone Pocket Coils - AZ
3” Firm Dunlop - TBD
2” or 3” Medium Talalay (this would be in its own cover)
Wool Cover - AZ
Topper Cover - AZ

What do you think of this config?

  1. Should we go with 2” or 3” top layer
  2. Does it make sense to have a separate cover for the top layer to make config changes easier?

We are mostly side/back sleepers who weigh 155-175 lbs.

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Hey Jbrady3324,

Welcome back to TMU,

Selecting the combo zone coil support will offer you years of service. Depending on foundation you will be using, you may want to add a base layer below the coils. It may not be necessary, but some folks utilize older foundations, which can be ok, I just like to have those springs being supported nicely with the help of the dense 1/2"-3/4" HD base layer.

Naturally, it is difficult to compare this set up to what you tried locally, as we dont know that those systems are.

The firm 3" dunlop bottom of your comfort layer should maintain the firmness that even a sleeper even with a higher BMI than either of you should need. As far as the top comfort layer will depend on just how firm you want it. Choosing a 2" medium talalay will make a slight change in the feel, but not quite a drastic change, so it may still feel fairly firm. If that is your comfort point, than that is where you want to be. If you want something a bit more plushy, the 3" will offer a more noticeable difference in the feel. Keep in mind, your comfort layer is likely to soften up slightly during the first month, so keep that in mind as you consider that 3" Talalay layer.

I am sure the @Arizona_Premium can offer some insight as it appears you are utilizing their options. Which is why I moved you to “ask the experts section” as no one knows the performance of their materials better than AZP.

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I’m no expert however I was researching latex builds for months. I’m 5"11 210lbs. BMI of 28 ish back and side sleeper. Fortunately for me, there was a local company that used the Combi-zoned coils with micro-coils and firm latex (forgot what the ILD was) on top. I’ve also had a hip replacement. The section of the firmer-zoned coils was way too firm for me. Laying on my back I felt the support and too much pressure in my pelvis and not in my lower back. Laying on the non-hip replaced side again too much pressure on my hip and was worse on my replaced hip side. I’d be careful about using those zoned coils at your weights. I was going to build with the L&P 6" non-zoned coils because I could not find the 8" coils in full size.

I knew I wanted Talalay for my hybird build yet most offered Dunlop. I did not want zoned latex either for the same reasons. I canned the DIY because I read so many were changing out the latex and did not want to end up having a bunch of latex lying around(an expensive endeavor). I ended up buying a Dream Foam hybrid latex a division of Brooklyn Bedding. I read the 6" ascension coils were softer than the 6" L&P so I went with the 3" firm ILD 36, they use blended Talalay which is what I was looking for thinking the firm would compensate for the softer coils. The nice thing about buying a prebuilt mattress is it comes with a 120-day money-back sleep trial. Brooklyn Bedding also will send a free soft topper if the mattress is too firm. Again my thought was it’s easier to make a firm mattress softer vs making a soft mattress firmer. I’ve been sleeping on it for a month. Sleeping on my back I feel the right amount of support to my lower back vs my pelvis. On my side, I don’t feel increased pressure on my hips. It’s pretty firm though and took them up on the free soft mattress topper. Customer service at BD said it was foam but didn’t know what kind all he said was it was Glaciotex. I I don’t like that I’ll get a 2" ILD 28 blended Talalay from APM.

Here are a few links

Yankee Mattress if you want to see how their top-of-the-line mattress is constructed using the combi coils

I bought this

Good luck whatever way you go

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Thanks for the very helpful replies. It’s not clear what springs are in the bed but given that it is 8” I’m assuming they were zoned. But not positive as the website doesn’t mentioned the word “zoned”. The bed we tested was this:

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Hi jbrady3324 and nomad,

As we all know, everyone’s experience when testing, trying, and sleeping on a mattress will be different. We would all like to believe that 2 individuals of the same size and weight will prefer the same mattress. Perhaps that can happen, but when evaluating for a mattress system for folks looking for a new mattress, the best we can do is follow a standard set of guidelines that can focus on the PPP of each individual, target the weight class, and present a starting point for the mattress search.

Physical conditions, previous experiences, and bed partners, in addition to a myriad of factors, contribute to what a final choice might entail. One person may need zoned support, while another person may prefer something more uniform on their body, and the next may want something that offers a bit of bounce.

The dreamfoam latex from BB is actually quite nice for a budget talalay latex mattress. Depending on when you made your purchase, it may have come with ascension coils that were the same gauge edge to edge or the newer version has a zoned coil of 15 and 16g coils carefully set between the body of the mattress and the perimeter edge of the mattress. The previously used ascension coils have been discontinued. They only now use ascension x, zoned, and titan caliper coils.
Regardless, as I mentioned, the Dreamfoam Latex Hybrid is a nice budget friendly mattress. The Talalay latex foam used in Dreamfoam Latex’s construction comes in soft (19 ILD), medium (28 ILD), and firm (36 ILD), depending on whether you soft, medium of firm. Glaciotex is the “cooling” cover used in many BB mattresses as it is sewn directly onto the mattress cover. While Glaciotex is temperature regulating fabric, like all “cooling” materials, it will be short-lived, and if you plan on using an additional topper, the Glaciotex cover becomes a moot point

Brooklyn Bedding is generous with offering that free topper to tweak the firmness, but they have an incentive to do so. One incentive is that they don’t have to exchange it if the mattress it too firm and can potentially solve it with a softening topper. Clearly, it is less expensive to ship a topper than to ship a mattress among many other economic and environmental issues. Plus, toppers do help extend the life of the mattress. The topper they most commonly send is their gel swirl 2.5lb memory foam topper.

Nomad makes some nice suggestions. I would add that depending on where you look for your latex hybrid, that will determine if the manufacturer will use talalay or dunlop. There are qualities of both that make one favorable over the other. Another factor, the talalay process requires addition manufacturing steps, so naturally it would be more expensive.

Pre-built mattresses have certain advantages in that the manufacturer can tailor them to a wider targeted audience of a specific type. Folks of a certain weight class, sleep position, and comfort level, to name a few.

While I don’t recommend folks randomly putting together a DIY solely by themself, here at TMU, there are many manufacturers who will help walk you through the process. Sometimes, adding something as simple as a 1/2" hd base layer under a spring support layer or a transition layer between the comfort and support layer, can make a meaningful difference that may be overlooked. Our Trusted Members years of experience can not and should not be overlooked. All of those here are happy to help guide DIY’ers and put them on a path to long-term comfort. I could go through a list of them, but you would be just as successful checking them out on your own. https://mattressunderground.com/the-underground/our-trusted-members

@TheCleanBedroom is always happy to discuss their mattresses, such as those from Naturepedic. The EOS organic is a beautiful mattress system with these features.

15" Naturepedic Organic Latex Hybrid Mattress

• 1” Zippered Quilted Organic Cotton, Wool Batting Cover

• 3” Customizable Latex Comfort Layer

• 3” Organic Cotton Wrapped Customizable Latex Comfort Layer w/ pillowtop encasement

• 8” wrapped customizable pocket coil support layer

• Layers Split for Queen, King & Cali King

Of course, with additional quality materials, the ability to interchange comfort layers and customize the support layer comes a bit bigger price tag.

As we can all experience, we can make generalities about what different sleepers might find comfortable. I would still encourage folks to look deeper at what TMU has to offer to make you a more informed mattress consumer 5 Steps to the perfect mattress. That is the perfect place to start. And for general information to begin the journey Shopping Tutorial

Hey, have a Happy New Year and a healthy one.

Norm

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Nice post Norm,

During my DD I talked to most of the trusted member DIY companies. I read almost every post here and on Reddit gathering as much information as I could before deciding what to buy. Most of it was centered around the coils and going with Dunlop, nonblended Talalay, or blended Talalay. Laying on that Yankee mattress was an eye-opener of how those zones coils felt. From everything I read, I decided on the blended Talalay. It seemed to fit in between non-blended Talalay and Dunlop as far as longevity and plushness. I broke down the bed into coils, latex, and cover since I did not want a memory foam mattress. I also read most liked a thin cover so they slept closer to the latex. I assumed Brooklyn Bedding ascension coils were used in all their hybirds. I wanted blended Talalay and I thought the cover was just ok. I never slept on 100% eco-friendly mattress before so that was not a concern. I bought the Dream Foam Latex on black Friday. I called them to order it because I don’t like putting my CC out there in case they got hacked which has happened to me before. The customer service person was very nice and offered me an additional 5% off the 30% off they were running. The cost of the Mattress was just under 600.00 including tax and my state’s mattress crap they charge. This was 1/2 the cost of the DIY build I was considering. As far as quality the only downside I thought of was the cover. I was putting a waterproof cover on top of the mattress and thought if the cover ripped or became word out I could take it apart use the coils and latex and get a different cover. Yes, it was cheap but I couldn’t find another company that had that much better quality to warrant spending twice as much. My 1 mistake was not finding out what the free topper was made out of. I want to sleep on latex and if this free topper doesn’t do it I’ll sell it and buy a blended latex. Even with the topper it still puts me under the cost of other hybirds. I also liked the fact Dream Foam has soft, Med., and Firm as Nom indicated whereas other companies just come in medium. Essentially with a topper, I’ll be using the mattress as a support layer. The topper’s coming in 2 days and will update on how I like it. Norm, you’re right Dream Foam changed the design of the mattress recently unfortunately I missed out on the old design which had the zippered cover.

Deciding on a mattress is worse than buying a car!

Brooklyn Bedding does make a 100% eco-friendly hybird. The problem was was it only comes in med. firm. If I had a choice on the firmness I may of gone that route.

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Yes, the dreamfoam is a nice mattress. Actually, BB makes very nice mattresses across the lines. I have 2 of them. Dreamfoam, Ecosleep, Birch, all relatively the same except as you move up the chain, they add more premium materials.
One option could have be, if the DF doesnt work out, is one of their other eco friendly’s with a talalay topper which is available in 3 levels of firmness.

Good luck with it. Keep us posted periodically on your status.

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Sorry to have missed this @jbrady3324 - This may be too late, but to clarify with the Naturepedic EOS, it is not a zoned mattress; however, it is customizable as far as firmness and you have 100 days to swap the layers if it is too firm or soft.

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Update to my bed

As you know I bought a firm Deamfoam latex hybird. I found it to firm. I ordered the free topper from Brooklyn Bedding which makes Dreamfoam. My mistake is that I never asked what the foam was. I assumed because I bought latex they would send me a latex topper. Wrong on that lol. I didn’t even take it out of the box, It’s up for sale. I wanted latex so the next decision was a 2 or 3" topper. I Everything I read was 3"'s changes the whole dynamics of the Mattress so decided on a 2". I already knew I wanted a medium firmness with my BMI. I wanted a blended Talalay nonzone for the reasons I stated in my previous posts. I ordered the blended Talalay from Arizona Premium Mattress (APM). Received it 2 days ago and got rid of a memory foam topper I had lying around that was terrible.

This topper made the world of difference I slept so well the last 2 nights I didn’t want to get out of bed lol. It cost me an extra $267.00 but well worth it.

A few observations for those trying to decide what to buy or DIY.

Remember what works for one person of the same or close to BMI doesn’t mean it will work for you.

  1. Decided coils or solid foam- lay on mattresses in retail stores
  2. Memory foam, latex, foam or a combination.
  3. know your BMI and your partners.
  4. Understand your and your partner’s health issues
  5. Read this forum these guys are very friendly and helpful, I also used Reddit.
  6. Speak to a real person. I spoke to many here and they all we very friendly not just wanting to make a sale.
  7. Have a maximum amount you want to spend.

Remember what works for one person of the same or close to BMI doesn’t mean it will work for you.

I’m so glad I found Mattress Underground. I didn’t post a lot but read almost every post. Ya’ll were so helpful and friendly

Cost was a factor for me. This is my bed for under $1000.00
Mattress- Dreamfoam Latex - Dream Foam
Bed frame- https://shorturl.at/qCUW1
Topper- 2 " Blended Talalay Latex Mattress Topper , Talalay & Dunlop Latex Toppers - Bare, Latex Mattress Toppers and Cores, All Products

Sheets- Dang almost as hard as deciding on the right bed. I wanted a cooler sheet set and after reading a ton of posts I decided on percale. Some say it’s scratchy yet I took the change and don’t find it scratchy at all.

In my profession, I’m asked a lot about pillows. This is what I’ve been using it gives very good neck support and your neck in not in flexion while sleeping on your back.

Best of luck to everyone trying to find that perfect mattress and my best to everyone at Mattress Underground

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Thanks for the replies above. All very helpful. I’m concerned I’m going overkill with 6” of latex. Most hybrid beds online are only 3” latex.

Unless convinced not to, I am going with:

8” bolsa coil
3” firm Dunlop
3” soft talalay

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Simple, easy to modify, gets the job done. Who could ask for more!

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Does it make sense to put the comfort layer in its own cover for a Pillow Top effect? If yes, all I can find is 3” stretch/simple cotton covers and think I would prefer a quilted cover

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Often the type of cover can affect the firmness of the mattress. I dont think it is over kill with the 6" of latex.
You could present the talalay as a topper and use this type of encasement (as I did on one of my toppers) 3" Topper Encasement Cover.

You may want to try the set up without any cover to begin with. Otherwise, you will be buying an 11 inch mattress cover, then placing the 3" topper on it. If not, you need to find a 14" mattress cover APM 14" Organic Cotton or Bamboo Wool both quilted

If your intention was to create the 14" mattress and you have tested the comfort. You can get a 14" cover and just go for it.

In response to the question on the TTTE side. Unzipping a 14" cover and replacing a 3" layer is fairly simple. On the other hand, if you do an 11" cover, and you dont like the 3" topper, and want a 2", wool topper, or any other configuration. Your core will always be the 11" and you never have to worry about changing the mattress cover until it wears out.

In retrospect, that is probably the better way to approach it. 11" core mattress. Modifiable with whatever you want. You are covering it with a fitted sheet anyway.
Just be certain your topper cover as some grip to the bottom so it doesn’t slide around inside the fitted sheet.

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Good point. I think I will try the config without a cover before deciding on the cover structure. My understanding is having the comfort layer in its own cover like a topper results in a plusher feel. Is that a correct assumption? The Naturepedic bed above has a pillow top layer which we are attempting to mimic but maybe it isn’t worth it?

3" Subrtex Topper Encasement Cover

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Not the one I had but another option

This is the one I had

I am sure you can order a topper with an organic cotton cover too, but at a higher cost.

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I’m trying to find a quilted cotton cover in 3” size line Arizona offers for 6”+. But maybe not. The sleeponlatex and latex factory topper covers look like they will allow us to be closer and feel the latex more.

What do you recommend for grip? Do you recommend a layer under the coils? Initially the coils will be on top of a box spring but eventually we are going to change our bed frame to a platform suitable for this bed and remove the box spring.

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Although it is not necessary, I prefer a 1/2-1" base layer under the coils. Some 3" toppers come with an organic cover available.
3" organic topper cover

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@Maverick Thanks for the help. I’ve decided to start with this config:

8” Bolsa
3” Firm Dunlop
3” Medium Talalay

I am not going to order a cover just yet. I plan to put a put blanket on top and and then enclose in a bed sheet to test. Do you have a recommendation how to simulate a topper config?

What do you recommend to use as grip so the topper doesn’t slide/shift?

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@Maverick what do you recommend for a base layer? Coir?

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You could use coir, I am not going to speak for any of our latex specialists here at TMU, as they may say, you dont need any base layer. Which is true. The idea of having a more stiff support under the spring layer is appealing and reliable particularly if you are used slats that are more than 2.5" apart…

If you want to stick with the natural, breathable concept, than coir would be the choice. Others might go with an inch of HD polyfoam. But coir is fine, as it will have less of an impact on the overall firmness of they mattress system. If you are using an adjustable base, you would not need any other base layer.

Maverick

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