Is Stearns & Foster actually poor quality these days? alternatives?

I’m the OP of this thread: https://forum.mattressunderground.com/t/cool-mattress-for-side-sleepers-confused-by-information-overload/37693

After trying out a SleepEZ latex mattress for 4 months with various configuration, we decided to return it. Wife thought it was pretty good but not amazing, and I couldn’t find a single configuration that wasn’t awful for me. SleepEZ was a pleasure to work with and they’re a great and honest company, but I’m afraid that latex just isn’t for me.

As mentioned in the original thread, I’m happy with my 13 year old S&F. So we decided to go to mattress stores and try out traditional (coil) and hybrid mattresses. We didn’t like any of the hybrids. We really liked the S&F Lux Estate Pillow Top (soft). Obviously trying in the store doesn’t tell us whether we’ll really like it, but that’s that.

This S&F model gets really good reviews on review sites, but real people on online forums have all sorts of complaints about S&F being good quality these days. I’m always skeptical of professional reviewers. I value real people’s opinions, but the people who have good experiences generally aren’t complaining. So, I’m a little uncomfortable pulling the trigger on a S&F.

Is the S&F worth moving forward on? If not, where else should we look at this point?

Thank you!

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Hi Lax_Esq,

I decided to chime in as someone who was starting my hunt for a new mattress 3 years ago or so, I ran through the gambit of mattresses coming off two “S” brands in the previous 36 years. A pretty good run. Unfortunately, that phrase, they dont make them like they used to created a couple of road blocks to go that route again.

A couple of observations I have made since then actually highlight a couple of Trusted Members here on TMU.

@DLX and @EngineeredSleep while not trying to mimic any S brand mattress, produce extremely comfortable mattresses that actually can be modified in home without having to return an entire mattress. While I have not experienced any of the Engineered Sleep options, I can surmise from the specs and quality components they offer something for everyone and are able to fine tune any mattress they produce.

DLX, I have had the pleasure of experiencing, and my first impression was similar to when I had tried the S&F Estate Ultra firm mattress. The initial feel was firm, supportive and just felt great. I guess the big difference was the concern about longevity and quality of components. While S&F does not provide specs on their mattress and reviews were all over the place, it caused me the same pause you seem to be experiencing.

10 Months into her DLX Premier hybrid firm/medium, that DLX mattress my MiLaw has been sleeping on has performed flawlessly. Every 3 months I am checking those layers like a hawk, and they are unremarkable. The firmness still remains as it felt the first day I set the mattress up for her. No body impressions, no humps in the mattress, and the comfort layer looks barely slept on. I add that last line because of the fact a year and a few months prior to me buying her the DLX, on her own, had a BeautyRest mattress delivered. Within a year she developed back pain, disruptive sleep and complained on a regular basis. I inspected the mattress, I discovered a dip in the mattress, what looked like a car tire had been sinking into the mattress for an extended amount of time. Almost as if her artificial hip and worn right through the cover and comfort layer. Rather than deal with the long winded hassle of a warranty claim, I just got her the DLX premier hybrid. Sight unseen for her. To me the “feel” was quite a similar experience to the S&F despite the very different compositions.

Another option worth mentioning is @Magic_Sleeper. (Stardella Luxury Plush – Magic Sleeper) They are know for quality mattresses and have created a means to mimic some of those famous legacy brands where know for high quality mattresses back in the day, as they say. While Magic Sleeper aims to create mattresses that are nearly clones of those famous names, they do it in the spirit of the quality manufacturing one might expect and they have a non prorated 25 year warranty to back it up, while saving quite a bit off the cost of the branded mattress. So if you really liked how your S&F performed, you might want to take a peek at @Magic_Sleeper.

I am quite certain all of these Trusted Members would be happy to answer any questions you might have in your mattress search.

All the best on your search,

Maverick

Yes we are always more than welcome to help out with any questions you may have! We have a store in PA but you can always call us to go over the specifications on the mattresses. We can help you find something that fits you best.
~ Bryce S

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Thank you Maverick for this helpful response. DLX and Engineered Sleep seem worth considering. Magic Sleeper seems good in theory, but they’re not the type of company that’s set up for shipping so they’re out. Anything else to consider?

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I really appreciate the quality of DLX and Engineered Sleep (ES). As I mentioned in a previous post, and coincidentally on Reddit, I’ve shared my thoughts on S&F and their mattress modifications since Y2K, as well as my experience testing them. If you can even call it a test. I don’t believe that spending just 10–15 minutes, or even half an hour, lying on a mattress truly qualifies as a proper test, aside from ruling out mattresses that feel too soft.

There has to be a balance of knowing the materials, the engineering and build of the mattress combined with the short term showroom test, in order to feel confident enough to move forward with a purchase. While reading folks grievances online, does not always represent reality, most can figure out if the story being told is one by a serial complainer or someone point out key facts that connects the experience with the components.

I recall my experiences a few years ago and more recently, both at the trade show in July and in every store I visit (which drives my wife crazy—though it’s not to annoy her, I just can’t resist trying every mattress I come across!). As I’ve mentioned before, S&F still feels wonderful when you first lie down on it. It’s firm, supportive, and substantial. The same goes for Aireloom (though I’m not a fan of the foam edge support perimeter encasement on the Airelooms or BeautyRests, as I sleep about an inch from the edge). These mattresses have that initial luxurious feel; they sort of “suck you in.” But when I look at reviews from people who’ve made the investment, and their self-assessments after ownership of a year or more, Too many of the stories do not instill confidence enough for me to spend or recommend spending $4,000–$8,000 on one of them. Honestly, I wouldn’t even spend $1,000 on them. But, that is just me, there are reviews, hopefully legitimate, where people love them.

I remember my mother-in-law’s experience with a BeautyRest mattress. After just over a year, it developed a “pothole” under her artificial hip area. I could have gone the warranty route, but I know how that process works with these big brands—they treat you like just another number. Plus, I wasn’t sure we had time to waste, especially for my 86-year-old mother-in-law with her specific health issues. DLX, on the other hand, made a mattress to our exact specifications, and had it manufactured and delivered within a week.

When I lie on the firm side of that DLX mattress, it feels just as solid and firm as the national brands did when I tried them in the showroom. Ten months in on the DLX you can barely tell it’s been slept on. It’s really reassuring when you’re considering a mattress. There’s a noticeable difference between the DLX and the more expensive BeautyRest mattresses.

That said, are there other mattresses I would recommend? Absolutely. Shifman is a favorite of mine, especially their quilted line, which is relatively modestly priced compared to some of their other collections. Millbrook is another favorite. I fell in love with them after experiencing their quality in person, and I was already impressed by the craftsmanship of their builds and topper options. The Hampshire III offers a great balance between cost and quality, so you’re not sacrificing much compared to their more expensive mattresses.

Millbrook and Shifman are not typically “Bed-in-a-Box” (BiB) mattresses, but they do ship, depending on where you purchase them. Custom Comfort, Spencer’s Ventura Mattress in California, @ShovlinMattress in NJ, @Gardner in Mass., @foxmattress in Dayton area Florida and @BeloitMattress are all who make quality traditional mattress designs, like it was their only mission in life, and apparently it is! Of course there are the latex options too, which several of our Trusted Members excel at in the industry.

Fortunately, today’s market offers great BiB options, like DLX and Engineered Sleep, that most people wouldn’t be able to tell apart from traditional mattresses, even if they were delivered in a box—or sometimes two boxes. Both of these brands offer top-notch customer service, with expert knowledge and excellent support.

Whoa, sorry for the novel, but I just like to get it all out there.

Maverick

Thanks for all that. I’m concerned that the DLX won’t be able to make a config that will be soft enough for my wife, who likes it very very soft. Given their limited customization, what do you think?

Every company I talk to likes to say stuff like “this configuration is already very soft, we don’t recommend softer” and it’s going to be way too hard for her. For example, my wife ended up most liking the SleepEZ config w 3" soft talalay, 3" soft talalay, and 3" medium talalay. They told us the 3" soft talalay, 3" medium dunlop, and 3" firm dunlop was already a very soft mattress and they don’t recommend softer, and they almost thought she was crazy for even wanting to consider the config that she ended up liking best.

DLX seems to use the same coil system in all their mattresses, and the only customization is the top comfort layer - a 2" poly or latex which they offer in various firmness. I’m concerned that even with a soft latex on top, she’s still going to think it’s way too firm. DLX says that a soft latex is like 4/10 on the scale, which is way too firm for her. She probably needs to be at like 1 or 2 of 10.

It’s difficult to get these companies to seriously appreciate how soft she wants it to be, and if they don’t offer a super soft option, I’m afraid they just want to steer us to buy whatever they have that’s the softest and just try it out. It’s a big hassle and waste of time to have to try out a mattress for 30+ days and then deal with getting rid of it, even if it’s all free… if you know if not going to be right.

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I understand what you are saying about the softness level of 1 or 2, that may be a hard fit to find. I would encourage you to speak with @DLX regarding the softness and adding a very soft topper, but most will tell you, anything less than a 14ILD in latex, is not going to offer much support at all. I suppose you could get a feather topper, which is very soft, but you could discuss with them what model mattress you wife has had success with, or combination of mattress and topper.

Most companies worry about a comfort layer that soft holding up over time.

You should speak with them or someone like @EngineeredSleep who will customize the mattress on the fly for you. I am just not certain what softness level they go down to.

Thanks again for the advice.

A follow-up question about my previous post and how DLX and Engineered Sleep each use the same coil system in all their mattresses and how the only customization is the top comfort layer… Are the major “S” brands the same way? E.g., if you compared a S&F Lux Estate soft, medium and firm to each other, are the coil systems all the same and the only difference is the comfort layer? Or do they do different coil systems?

DLX said they could give my wife a extra soft (ILD 14) Talalay as her comfort layer, but they said that even with that, it’s a question mark whether overall the bed will be soft enough for her because the coil system is the same for all their beds. So we’re wondering if that’s just the industry-- and the coil system is always the same.

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I know that 13 years sounds like a long time ago, but it was only 2011, and the quality of foams and materials that Stearns and Foster uses now and back then hasn’t changed much. If you go back to 1990, they used different materials and tended to be firmer and more supportive with offset heavy-duty open coil units and not as much padding as they use today. I know online forums have all sorts of complaints about S&F not being good quality these days, but you would find the same level of complaints back in 2012 when Onno founded The Mattress Underground. Not much has changed—the more they change, the more they stay the same.

We can’t speak for Stearns and Foster’s policies, materials, durability, etc., but if it were us, I’d get a Stearns and Foster again. You had success with it in the past and found the in-store model comfortable. The only issue could be if your 13-year-old mattress had less padding, which helped with its longevity. The more materials, especially less dense (though S&F’s density of foam probably hasn’t changed in nearly 20 years) over the springs, the more softening and compression there will be.

We appreciate your concerns about getting a DLX mattress that is soft enough. It is in our best interest to be as straightforward as possible in our recommendations. We understand the hassle and inconvenience of the refund process and starting over. For us, a return is also not ideal either; we have invested time, labor, and materials, so it is in our best interest not to push you into something that would not work. We have a generous policy and do not put up roadblocks to prevent refunds after someone has slept on the mattress—we would always prefer not to sell it than to have to issue a refund when we could have prevented it pre-sale. There are times when people seem like good candidates for our mattress and would likely find it comfortable, and we tell them that we think they’ll like our mattress. However, if they end up not liking it, we give the refund and do not prevent it.

There are times when we tell people that our mattress might not be a good fit. We’d rather tell someone that our mattress might not be comfortable for them than have them buy it and then request a refund. However, there are people whom we advise that our mattress might not be a good fit, who still purchase it and end up getting a refund. We honor our policies.

But if someone purchases our mattress and then finds it uncomfortable, we always try to make them comfortable by asking questions or suggesting some in-home tests to see if there is something that can be done to make the mattress more comfortable rather than immediately issuing a refund.

Keep in mind that even with the same coil unit, we can make something super soft or very firm. The variety in coil units does not significantly impact how soft we can make the mattress unless someone wants something very rigid or extra supportive, like a brick.

The limiting factor with our mattress getting super soft like a marshmallow with the Premier is the amount of foam over the coil unit that impacts how soft we can get the mattress. For softness, most of it comes from what is above the coil unit, not the coil unit itself—yes, there are always exceptions to the rule. In general, thicker layers of foam above the coil unit usually lead to a softer feel, so a mattress with 5.25" of foam over the coil unit versus the identical specs but with 7.25" of foam of the same density and ILD will feel softer than one with 5.25" because the coil unit tends to be the firmest part of the mattress, and more flexible material above the firmest part will make the mattress feel softer on average.

The Stearns and Foster might have an initial softer feel than ours because of the quilting foams. We use 1.8-pound foam, and Stearns and Foster does not list theirs, but it could be anywhere from 1.5 down to 1.15, which Sealy uses in their Posturepedics. I know 0.3 pounds doesn’t sound like much, but a 1.8 is 20% denser compared to a 1.5 pound. Keep in mind that a higher density foam will feel firmer than a lower density of the same ILD. This is a double-edged sword in terms of durability and comfort if you need the extra softness.

So, we’d estimate that the quilting in the Stearns and Foster will be a little plusher than our mattress because they use a lower density foam, which will give a plusher feel initially

In most cases, people who find a Stearns and Foster that measures less than 14.75" tall comfortable also find our Premier Hybrid comfortable. The 16" does have added plushness because of the extra foam and fiber.

Keep in mind that terms like ‘super soft’ and ratings like ‘1 or 2’ are subjective and mean different things to different people. We are working with someone right now who wanted something very soft and got the Premier Soft and is finding it too soft. Though, your experience may vary, and some people find the Premier Soft not soft enough—it varies.

Based on some research, here are the specs for the Stearns and Foster Lux Soft Pillowtop. It states that it is a 16" mattress. Assuming the coil unit is 8.75", which they don’t state, they have approximately 6.25" of foam and fiber over the pocket coil, whereas the DLX Premier has 5.25". The extra inch can add some additional softness.

Quilt Layers:

  • FR Fiber
  • 1" Premium Ultra Soft Gel Foam
  • 1/2 oz Polyester Fiber
  • 1" Premium Ultra Soft Gel Foam
  • 3/8" Premium Ultra Soft Gel Foam Center
    Comfort Layers:
  • 0.75" TEMPUR-Indulge™ Memory Foam
  • Pillow Top Support Layer
  • 1" Premium Soft Gel Foam
  • Inner Panel
  • 1" Premium Soft Gel Foam
  • 1" Premium Soft Latex
    Support System:
  • Coil Density: 2044 Intellicoil® Encased Coils
  • 8 S&F AirVents
  • Precision Edge™ System
    Base:
  • 1" Premium Firm Foam Base

Sorry for the long-winded nature of this post. We went off the deep end when explaining things. In the end, our first recommendation is to stick with the Stearns and Foster. If you feel compelled to get a DLX Premier, we’d recommend our 14" in Soft. Feel free to ask more questions. We promise to keep it shorter next time.

I believe that DLX uses Leggett & Platt spring systems, and Engineered Sleep uses Texas Pocket Springs. If you’re asking whether each company uses a single line of springs across all their mattresses, it’s possible that they do.

To the best of my knowledge, Sterns & Foster (S&F) also uses Leggett & Platt springs. However, Leggett & Platt manufactures a variety of spring systems, which might be customized for large companies like Tempur-Pedic, Sealy, and Sterns & Foster. These companies likely select different spring systems depending on the specific mattress collection and level of firmness they want to offer.

For example, Sterns & Foster uses various spring systems across their collections, including the PrecisionEdge Coil System, individually wrapped coils, IntelliCoil, and Quantum Edge Coils. I’m not entirely sure if all the mattresses in their Lux Estate collection use the same springs, while their Reserve collection uses a different system.

According to the Sterns & Foster website, the Estate Collection uses IntelliCoil, while the Studio Collection uses pocketed, individually wrapped coils. The Reserve Collection features IntelliCoil HD with PrecisionEdge. Clearly, each series utilizes a different spring system.

Since Sterns & Foster does not disclose the densities of the foam layers in their mattresses, we can infer that the differences in firmness likely come from variations in the foam’s density within the comfort layers. In the Reserve Series, the firm and soft models have pillow-top layers, while the medium version does not. This suggests that Sterns & Foster may be adjusting the feel of the mattress primarily through the use of different pillow-top layers, offering different levels of plushness or firmness.

Since smaller manufacturers have less models to offer, in general, it makes sense they utilize the same spring support across their few lines, and modifying the feel through the comfort layers. Perhaps they may incorporate 2 varieties of springs rather than one, to accommodate the plus sized crowd. Larger companies that have multiple assembly lines may dedicate each to a particular combination of components based to the level of comfort being produced and the price point that meets their objectives.

You may want to consider a feather topper to increase the over softness of the mattress for your wife’s side. I know that Brooklyn Bedding’s signature hybrid in soft with the pillowtop is reported to be extremely soft, so if an internal split of some type does not work, you may be heading towards split king (a pair of twin xl’s).